The Admin Bar The WordPress Community & Podcast connecting people with the products, lessons, & strategy to help push their business forward. Thu, 02 Apr 2020 18:54:21 +0000 en-US © The Admin Bar The WordPress Community & Podcast connecting people with the products, lessons, & strategy to help push their business forward. The Admin Bar episodic The WordPress Community & Podcast connecting people with the products, lessons, & strategy to help push their business forward. The Admin Bar clean The Admin Bar SEOHive: The Answer to Outsourcing Proactive SEO Services Tue, 31 Mar 2020 18:19:31 +0000 Matthew Sebert Jeffery Patch,Kyle Van Deusen,Matt Sebert,Pete Everitt Today we’re joined by Pete Everitt and Jeffery Patch to chat about how they’ve teamed up to bring you their take on how outsourced search engine optimization services should be done. Their proactive approach to building your clients SEO is like none other. We’ll dig into how it all started, what they’re offering, how to onboard current and new prospects, and much more… So, without further ado, let’s find out what’s in store for SEOHive!



clean no 00:54:16 Matthew Sebert
How Green is Your Website? with Hannah Smith Wed, 25 Mar 2020 09:38:43 +0000 Matthew Sebert Hannah Smith,Kyle Van Deusen,Matt Sebert Hannah Smith joins us to discuss easy ways we can operate our agencies to reduce our carbon footprint.

While the environmental impact of running a digital agency might have never crossed your mind, the amount of data you are responsible for is actually quite astounding.

Being conscious of the impact your agency has doesn’t mean you have to stop being efficient, however. In fact, Hannah shares some awesome productivity and optimization tips that not only result in less carbon emissions, but actually provide a better user experience for your website’s visitors and help you save time.


Follow Hannah on Twitter @hanopcan

Website Carbon

Krystal Hosting (UK)

Green Geeks Hosting

Kualo Hosting

Arbor Day

The Green Web Foundation

HTTP Archive




PDF Compressor

clean no 00:43:38 Matthew Sebert
The Power of Static WordPress Websites with Miriam Schwab of Strattic Tue, 10 Mar 2020 15:00:07 +0000 Matthew Sebert Kyle Van Deusen,Matt Sebert,Miriam Schwab While we all love WordPress, it isn’t without fault— speed and security being at the top of that list.

Miriam Schwab is working on solving common WordPress concerns with her one-button push static site generator Strattic.

Learn more about converting your WordPress website into a faster, more secure static HTML site, what types of website are best suited, and how it all works in this week’s episode!

Sign up for a 30-day free trial at

clean no 00:44:43 Matthew Sebert
The Friday Email – Probably the World’s Greatest “Hack” with Nathan Ingram Tue, 18 Feb 2020 15:08:38 +0000 Matthew Sebert Kyle Van Deusen,Matt Sebert,Nathan Ingram Nathan Ingram (coach, speaker, trainer, author, and agency owner) joins us to talk about the ‘Friday Email Strategy’ and how this simple, weekly email and drastically improve client communications and help give you your weekends back!

Nathan’s book, Dealing with Problem Clients, is chocked full of tips from his over 20 years experience designing and developing websites for clients. It’s a handy resource that’s never out of arm’s reach from my desk.

Nathan also shares with us his upcoming product: Monster Contracts which looks to be an amazing resource for implementing a rock-solid contract based around WordPress website development.


Monster Contracts:

Nathan Ingram’s Website:

Dealing with Problem Clients:

clean no 00:27:36 Matthew Sebert
Planning, Selling, & Executing Website Care Plans with Kristina Romero Tue, 04 Feb 2020 19:38:44 +0000 Matthew Sebert Kyle Van Deusen,Matt Sebert,Nathan Ingram Kristina Romero from WP Care Market joins us to answer some burning questions about crafting and executing the perfect (and profitable!) care plan.

Kristina has put together the most in-depth care plan training on the market, with courses covering: Crafting the Care Plan Product, Agency Processes for Care Plans, Automation for Care Plans, Hiring Your Support Team, and of course Selling the Website Care Plan.

Each one of these courses are jam-packed with practical, and proven advice (the kinds of care plans she’s running in her own agency today) that can help you get your care plans started on the right foot, or provide you with ways to improve your website care game.

In this episode we cover why care plans are more about relationship building than anything else, whether or not you should require care plans, if you should charge monthly or annually, and how you can implement some easy client touch points to improve relationships with your customers.

Learn more about the WP Care Market training at

Here’s an overview of Kristina’s courses:

Crafting the Care Plan Product

This course reviews the structure of profitable care plans so you are selling what works. Lessons review margins, pricing, sales pages, services offered and tools needed to provide this product to clients.

-Building the Core Offer
– Avoiding Profit Suckers & Wrong Clients
– Pricing with Profitable Margins
– Constructing the Sales Page and Proposal
– Setting Up Recurring Payment Environments
– Building a Care Plan Dashboard
– Recap and Action Items

Outcome: Leave this course with well-structured Care Plans optimized for better profit. Walk away with our sales page template crafted to fit your business.

Agency Processes for Care Plans

In this course, we’ll walk you through our proven client onboarding, website maintenance, and client support processes. All lessons show real tools in action along with tips, tricks, and lessons learned so you don’t repeat them

– The Rules of Forming Agency Processes
– Onboarding Care Plan Clients
– Website Maintenance Workflow
– Website Support Desk Workflow
– Creating a Client Database with Airtable
– Offboarding Care Plan Clients
– Recap and Action Items

Outcome: Leave this course with a complete task list for client onboarding, site updates, support and report processes to copy and paste into your business

Automation for Care Plans

This course walks through how to leverage project management SaaS with Airtable and Slack to elevate your processes for maximum profit and minimal mistakes. Tools reviewed include Teamwork, Teamwork Desk, Airtable, Slack, and Zapier.

– Website Care Automation Fundamentals
– Project SaaS Setup with Slack
– Support Task Workflow With Automation
– Zapier Zaps for Website Care Plans
– Airtable Formulas for Website Care Plans
– Sending Alerts and Notices from Airtable
– Recap and Action Items

Outcome: Complete this course to implement an automation system you can copy and paste into your own business that supports your human staff to provide timely quality support to your clients.

Hiring Your Support Team

This course will teach you how to find, qualify, train and work with a virtual assistant and developer in your business. We will also review the strategies to use care plan revenue to pay your staff’s salary and remove website care and client support from your to-do list.

– Support Team Investment Fundamentals
– Support Team Job Descriptions
– The Hiring Process
– Onboarding Staff and Contractors
– Training Staff and Contractors
– White-Labeled Staff Training Videos
– Recap and Action Items

Outcome: Walk away from this course with our job posting and screening templates so you can hire your team effectively the first time. Use our onboarding procedure to provide training task lists so you start out on the right foot.

Selling the Website Care Plan

In this course let’s tackle how to sell website care plans to past clients, new incoming project clients and new leads with existing websites. We’ll lay it all out from how to run a website evaluation for new leads, email copy, phone scripts, and follow-up email sequences

– Framing the Care Plan Sales Conversation
– Care Plan Lead Sources
– Past Client Outreach Process
– Raising Prices on Existing Clients
– Converting Sites You Didn’t Build (Website Evaluation)
– 30 Day Lead Conversion Sequence
– Recap and Action Items

Outcome: Leave this course ready to generate recurring revenue by implementing our sales outreach strategy to convert your clients and warm leads on to care plans.

clean no 00:39:37 Matthew Sebert
WordPress in the Flesh Tue, 14 Jan 2020 16:00:17 +0000 Kyle Van Deusen Kyle Van Deusen,Matt Sebert,Nathan Ingram The WordPress community is unlike most industries. Instead of being full of trade-secrets and competitors— we find ways to collaborate and share our success with our peers.

While communities like The Admin Bar are a great place to network with your peers online, there’s a whole “real” world out there to explore too!

Adam Silver (host of the Kitchen Sink WP podcast) joins us to talk about how he’s made the conscious decision to regularly attend WordCamps (and meetups and more) as an investment in his company.

In fact— he’s now attending around 10 a year (and is an organizer for his local WordCamp in Raleigh, as well as WordCamp US).

In this episode, titled ‘WordPress in the Flesh’, we take a deep-dive into these events and talk about the benefits of attending events like this in person, what to expect, what you can gain, tips for speaking, and a whole lot more.

On top of that, Adam tells us about his exciting new project ‘Backup Speaker’ and we uncover ways you (as an agency owner) could use this service to help land more speaking gigs at industry events near you.

Kitchen Sink WP Podcast (
Backup Speaker (
ConciergeWP (
Get Options Podcast (
‘Open’ (WordPress documentary) (

clean no 00:39:56 Kyle Van Deusen
“Freelancer” is a Four Letter Word Fri, 27 Dec 2019 15:00:15 +0000 Kyle Van Deusen Kyle Van Deusen,Matt Sebert,Nathan Ingram How many of you out there self-identify as a freelancer? It’s possible that the term might not be shining the best light on you after all…

Nathan Allotey from The Freelance Jumpstart Podcast joins us to talk about why (somewhat ironically) you should never refer to yourself as a “freelancer”.

Whatever title you’ve given yourself might have been an afterthought— but titles do hold meaning and give people an immediate indication as to your level of professionalism and expertise.

Nathan shares his personal story and revelation of how calling himself a “freelancer” was giving people the wrong impression and how shedding the label immediately allowed him to stop competing with the Fiverr’s of the world.

To help drive this point home, Nathan shares several analogies of how the use of “freelancer” in other industries is an obvious poor choice of words..

Now that you can give yourself any title you want, is “freelancer” what you really want people to think about you?

This conversation was inspired by an episode of Freelance Jumpstart TV, which you can find here.

Production Note: We obviously ran into some technical difficulties with Matt’s audio in this recording. If the conversation wasn’t so great, we’d have probably canned this episode— but if you can fight through a bit of poor production quality, I think you’ll find it’s worth it.  

clean no 00:32:16 Kyle Van Deusen
Not-So-Typical Networking Tue, 17 Dec 2019 16:00:57 +0000 Kyle Van Deusen Kyle Van Deusen,Matt Sebert,Nathan Ingram This week we’re joined by Admin Bar staple, Dave Navarro Jr. to talk about “not-so-typical networking”.

Back in October Dave started a thread in the group that said: “If you do not have a WordPress Meetup in your town, START ONE!” and the thread ended up being pure gold— with a ton of interest.

Running his local WordPress meetup for the past two years has given Dave the label of “the WordPress guy” in his local community— which is not a bad label to have. In fact, those connects have lead him to 6-figures in revenue!

We booked Dave on the show to tell us about how he started a meetup, what it takes to run one, what he gets out of it, what they’re like (if you’ve never been to one), and how you could either join or start a WordPress meetup.

Learn more about starting a WordPress Meetup

clean no 00:35:56 Kyle Van Deusen
Using Website Audits as a Sales Tool Tue, 10 Dec 2019 16:00:11 +0000 Kyle Van Deusen Clifford Almeida,Kyle Van Deusen,Matt Sebert I’ve wasted over 2 years and 10 months not truly understanding what a website audit is, and how I can use it as a powerful sales tool to not only land more projects but increase the value I bring to the table.

There are plenty of auditing tools out there— but the technical jargon they produce has little (or no) benefit to your client.

Clifford Almeida joins us to introduce a new way to look at website audits: as a powerful sales and communication tool that can help your prospects understand the value your services have.

Clifford’s service, My Web Audit, does just that— by analyzing more than just the technical aspects (like CRO, Analytics, UX, & more) and translating all the findings into actionable items you can bring to client meetings to show them how you can improve their website immediately.

Best of all, the beautiful reports can be done in just minutes— saving you hours of prep work and making you the obvious choice among your competition.

yes no 00:47:13 Kyle Van Deusen
Writing Proposals That Help You Win Clients Tue, 26 Nov 2019 15:40:28 +0000 Kyle Van Deusen Adam Hempenstall,Kyle Van Deusen,Matt Sebert Adam Hempenstall from Better Proposals stops by The Admin Bar to discuss the role proposals play in our business, plus about a million tips on ways to improve your proposals (and what you might be doing that’s killing them!).

We cover why you should be writing proposals as quickly as possible after meeting with a client, how using your clients vocabulary makes an enormous difference, why “responsive” design to proposals is so important (and why PDFs won’t cut it!), and how being confident in your pricing completely changes the dynamic in your relationship with your customer.

I’ve personally been using Better Proposals for around 900 days (Yes! That’s a lot!) and it has drastically changed not only the quality of my propoals but how I look at them as part of my business. I used to hate (I mean really hate) writing proposals. It always took forever, I didn’t know what to say, and I would get hung up on the “design” and “layout” rather than focusing on the substance.

Since using Better Proposals software not only have I drastically increased my conversion rate (and regularly have customers compliment my proposals), but I have cut down the time it takes me to build them out— and most importantly the dread I used to have even THINKING about writing a proposal is completely gone.

Start your free 14 day trial at:

yes no 01:00:34 Kyle Van Deusen
How to Get Quality Feedback from Clients Tue, 19 Nov 2019 18:09:32 +0000 Kyle Van Deusen Andre Gagnon,Kyle Van Deusen,Matt Sebert Andre Gagnon, creator of Project Huddle, stops by The Admin Bar to discuss how we can make soliciting feedback (and ultimately client communications) a breeze through his amazingly simple (yet powerful!) communication tool.

Project Huddle allows you and your client to have clear communication directly on the front-end of your website projects by placing virtual “sticky-notes” directly on top of any element.

The combination of clean UX and UI makes this an intuitive tool for even non-technical clients to wrap their head around— and I speak from experience when I say this has shaved days, weeks, & even months off of my project timelines!

In this episode you’ll learn more about how Project Huddle came to be, how it works, and how you can leverage it in your next project to increase your profit by saving time, frustration, and confusion.

Learn more by visiting

yes no 00:43:25 Kyle Van Deusen
Maintenance Reports: Are they worth sending? Fri, 15 Nov 2019 20:49:24 +0000 Kyle Van Deusen Kyle Van Deusen,Matt Sebert Kyle and Matt chat about a recent request from one of Kyle’s clients. They requested to be sent maintenance reports on a regular schedule. Is it worth spending the time setting them up and sending them out or is it a waste of time and energy that could be better spent elsewhere?

Let’s discuss!

yes no 00:11:43 Kyle Van Deusen
The Soloprenuer’s Guide Tue, 12 Nov 2019 21:41:33 +0000 Kyle Van Deusen Jim Galiano,Kyle Van Deusen,Matt Sebert In this episode of The Admin Bar, one of our favorites, Jim Galiano, is coming by to tell us all about something new he’s built….

If you’ve taken our advice in the past and listened to Jim’s podcast, you’ve undoubtedly been inspired by his no-nonsense approach to business and marketing.

While so many agencies are diving deeper and deeper into technology & gadgets to build their agency, Jim often talks about his “less moving parts” philosophy.

There’s no shortage of information out there for the aspiring agency owner who wants to grow a team. There’s nothing wrong with that if you have the right makeup for it — but what about for folks (like me) who want to be solo and maximize their profits without the overhead of a “traditional” agency model?

This is exactly what Jim has been doing for years— and now he’s going to share all his experience with us from the ground up in his new course: The Solopreneur’s Guide to Starting, Building, and Marketing a Successful Digital Agency

We discuss what lead Jim to this “less moving parts” approach, how it’s impacted his business, how his customers respond, what his new course will cover, and just who it’s aimed at helping.

Wanna know more about The Solopreneur’s Guide to Starting, Building, and Marketing a Successful Digital Agency?

This 10-module course (priced at $98 — woah!) is designed to strike a balance between giving you what you need to build out your entire plan and system, without drowning you with information overload.

You’ll see how Jim:

  • Sets pricing & creates offers for all income brackets
  • Writes a simple yet powerful business plan to guide his growth
  • Gets free publicity for himself and his clients through mainstream media
  • Markets his business without manipulation

You’ll also learn…

  • How Jim’s contract works—ensuring he always gets paid
  • How his “minimalist” marketing plans gets better results than the ‘be everywhere’ model that’s so popular today
  • How you can focus on the projects you enjoy and scale at a level that suits your desire (without pressure & stress)
  • Why Jim sends verbal proposals and gets “Yes” right there on the spot
  • His cold-calling methods and scripts to find new business with ideal customers
  • How he builds relationships through simple videos for his customers
  • How to create a platform where you can consistently be seen, heard, or read

You all know that I’m a HUGE fan of Jim… As soon as he told me that this course was in the works I asked him where I could sign up. I want to be the first customer— as this is exactly the kind of business I want to build for myself.

clean no 01:07:49 Kyle Van Deusen
Designing with Empathy Mon, 04 Nov 2019 21:24:48 +0000 Kyle Van Deusen Kyle Van Deusen,Matt Sebert,Piccia Neri Piccia Neri stops by The Admin Bar to discuss with us THE most important part of good user experience: designing with empathy.

Every once in a while it feels good to flex our design or development skills— but if it doesn’t benefit the user, are we actually doing any good?

In the end, we build websites to help our visitors (or our customer’s visitors) solve a problem. By approaching the planning, design, & development from the viewpoint of the user we can build websites that are more effective and increase conversions.

Learn more about great user experience from one of Piccia’s courses (a mini or full version) at and join her amazing Facebook community at

yes no 00:55:50 Kyle Van Deusen
Let’s Talk Managing Care Plans Tue, 15 Oct 2019 15:00:32 +0000 Kyle Van Deusen Care Plans,Jeffery Patch,Kyle Van Deusen,MaintainPress,Matt Sebert We’ve already determined the importance of recurring revenue (in the form of a maintenance plan) in your agency. But one consideration you need to have with any service you offer is how does it scale?

Through a combination of systems, processes, automation, and even white-label services, care plans can be almost infinitely scalable and “Mr. Care Plan” (not an official nickname), Jeffery Patch, is here to tell us how.

Jeffery is the owner of MaintainPress, a (mainly) white-label website maintenance company based in sunny Southern California. In this episode we discuss some of the obstacles that agencies face as their roster of clients grows.

We cover a wide range of questions, including topics like; pricing, automation, systems, tools, and what things the agencies with the fastest growing rosters are doing that contribute to their success.

Throughout the entire conversation we examine the benefits of working with a white-label partner that can completely operate this facet of your business. This form of outsourcing can give you the confidence that your clients sites are properly maintained while affording you the freedom to focus on the parts of your business where you’re most valuable.

If you’re interested in connecting with Jeffery and learning more about his white-label options you can visit the MaintainPress website at

yes no 00:43:43 Kyle Van Deusen
Proactive Word of Mouth Marketing Tue, 01 Oct 2019 15:00:48 +0000 Kyle Van Deusen Jason Resnick,Kyle Van Deusen,Matt Sebert Ask any agency or freelancer what their best lead source is, and you’re likely to hear “word of mouth” and “referrals” more often than not.

That shouldn’t come as any surprise. Over 70% of people say they don’t trust advertisements, while 92% will believe something is good if a friend recommends it.

A strong referral gives you the kind of marketing no ad spend could ever buy. Knowing this is the case, then let me ask you this:

What is your word of mouth marketing strategy?

Unfortunately, most of us rely on our customers to give referrals and speak highly of us out of their own kindness. While we hope they do, it makes it hard to predict or replicate with any consistency— “hope” is never an effective strategy.

Today’s guest, Jason Resnick, shares with us how we can adjust our processes to create moments in time that encourage more referrals from our customers in what we’re calling “Proactive Worth of Mouth Marketing”.

yes no 00:43:12 Kyle Van Deusen
Finding Clients as a Small Town Agency Tue, 17 Sep 2019 15:00:16 +0000 Kyle Van Deusen Jennifer Moss,Kyle Van Deusen,Matt Sebert Jennifer Moss runs a small-town agency, and for years has dove into the challenges living and working in a small community can bring. How do you grow an agency with a limited pool of local clients? How important is your reputation? What steps has she taken to make her agency successful? Find out in this week’s episode!

yes no 00:39:44 Kyle Van Deusen
Designing a Brand that Attracts your IDEAL Client Thu, 05 Sep 2019 14:00:20 +0000 Kyle Van Deusen Christopher Schell,Jenny Schell,Kyle Van Deusen,Matt Sebert Christopher and Jenny Schell have created a truly unique brand in the often carbon copy web agency space. Their company, Design Rangers, has a instantly definable identity that helps differentiate them from other agencies, and attracts their ideal client.

In fact, they’ve even won clients based on their branding alone.

How can you take some of these lessons and apply them to your own company? Join us in episode 36 to find out!

yes no 00:35:16 Kyle Van Deusen
Split Hero Lifetime Deal Tue, 13 Aug 2019 15:44:12 +0000 Kyle Van Deusen Adam Lacey,Kyle Van Deusen,Lifetime Deal,LTD,Matt Sebert,Split Hero Have you ever wanted to test variations of a page but weren’t sure how to do it? Or perhaps you tried, but the solutions you found were complex and cumbersome?

Then I’ve got the answer for you!

Split Hero is (by far) the EASIEST way to A/B test your WordPress pages. It’s as simple as telling split hero which pages you want as your variations, the length of time you want to test and pressing “start”. The rest… is magic.

And now, for a limited time, Split Hero is offering a LIFETIME DEAL exclusive to his referral partners (like us). For a one-time fee of $97 you can have:

– Unlimited Sites
– Unlimited Page Views
– Unlimited Visitors
– All Current & FUTURE Features
– 3 “Active” Campaigns

This deal is seriously silly.

A single A/B test could end up making you hundreds of dollars by choosing the RIGHT page to send your traffic. Or, you could setup tests for your customers and charge them per campaign.

Or heck, why not both?

This is the kind of software that doesn’t cost you money— it helps you make more of it. How do I know? Because I’ve already sold campaigns to customers! I’ve made my money back on this plugin several times over. Now you can too.

There’s literally no excuse left to not be A/B testing your pages. Split Hero makes it affordable, gives you the data you need to make informed decisions— and it’s as easy as pie. Mmmm pie.

yes no 00:41:01 Kyle Van Deusen
Let’s Talk Exit Strategy – Build an Agency You Can Sell Wed, 24 Jul 2019 10:09:05 +0000 Kyle Van Deusen Hans Skillrud,Kyle Van Deusen,Matt Sebert,Termageddon What is the end game for your agency? Do you plan on your last days spend behind the keyboard? Moving on to something else “one day”? Or can you build the kind of agency people pay good money for?

Hans Skillrud joins us to talk about the process of selling his agency earlier this year. He talks about the things he did to prepare, the mistakes he made (and you can avoid), what the process of selling an agency is like, and clears up my question “where the hell do you stick the ‘for sale’ sign?”

Selling an agency takes some careful planning— planning that you could start now so that when the time comes you’ve built an agency that is attractive to potential buyers.

Learn what those things are (and more!) in this week’s episode!

yes no 00:47:43 Kyle Van Deusen
Dispelling Myths & Good Advice on Website Security Tue, 09 Jul 2019 15:00:33 +0000 Kyle Van Deusen Kyle Van Deusen,Matt Sebert,Oliver SIld,WebARX If you’re like me, the last thing you want to do is stop down your day to deal with website security—but at the same time you realize this is an aspect of your web agency that is vital you get right.

This week we’re talking to Oliver Sild from WebARX who answered questions from our group members as well as questions that we run into running our website and agencies.

If you want to learn more about how to keep your site secure, how to explain website security to customers, and provide a security solution that you can rely on—then this episode is for you!

clean no 00:48:45 Kyle Van Deusen
What Made ATL a Success & How You Can Do Similar Tue, 25 Jun 2019 06:00:15 +0000 Kyle Van Deusen Lee Jackson Lee Jackson felt the fear and did it anyway. He pulled off the WordPress event of the year.. More focused than a WordCamp. More powerful than a Facebook Group. Able to leap tall buildings in a single bound!

Okay, well maybe not that last part— but it’s no secret what an amazing event the inaugural Agency Transformation Live was.

Focused on the 5 pillars of agency transformation, Lee and his amazing panel of speakers helped agencies at all stages recognize where their business stands, dream of where they want it to go, and gave them the tools to make it a reality.

That doesn’t even account for all the awesome selfie opportunities, shenanigans and “after hours” meetups at the pub.

Why he did it, how he pulled it off, and how you can leverage a live and interactive event for your own business (in front of YOUR target audience) all revealed in this week’s episode of The Admin Bar. If this sounds like the event for you—have no fear! Early bird tickets are still available for Agency Transformation 2020 are on sale. Get yours at and Matt and I will see you there!

clean no 00:30:28 Kyle Van Deusen
Building an eCommerce Solution Really Ain’t That Hard! Tue, 18 Jun 2019 06:00:32 +0000 Kyle Van Deusen Adam Preiser,CartFlows,Kyle Van Deusen,Matt Sebert Does the thought of building your first eCommerce site on WordPress give you some unease? I know the first time I installed WooCommerce I felt way out of my league. But really, it’s not too hard!

Adam Preiser from WPCrafter & CartFlows is here to talk about how easy it can be to put together your first eCommerce site with WordPress.

This show includes tips, tricks, tools, common pitfalls, and more— all geared toward helping you overcome the fear of building your first ecommerce website!

Show Links:

yes no 00:53:26 Kyle Van Deusen
Client Feedback Made Easy Tue, 04 Jun 2019 15:00:56 +0000 Kyle Van Deusen Kyle Van Deusen,Matt Sebert,Vito Peleg,WPFeedback Sometimes, when we talk to clients, it’s like we’re speaking an entirely different language. Not only does this make getting content, and making changes to websites difficult for us, but it’s also really frustrating for your client.

That’s exactly what our guest, Vito Peleg, discovered when he was growing his agency. And that’s what let him to ultimately develop a solution.

Vito just launched an amazing new plugin for WordPress called WP FeedBack which allows users to seamlessly and easily give feedback directly within their own website.

No more external logins, messy email chains, or training on how to use a complicated project management system.

Learn more at and use the coupon code: lovetab for a special discount!

yes no 00:51:26 Kyle Van Deusen
A Policy Solution That Makes You Money Tue, 21 May 2019 14:00:11 +0000 Kyle Van Deusen Donata Skillrud,Hans Skillrud,Kyle Van Deusen,Matt Sebert,Termageddon Let’s face it— privacy policies, terms of use, & disclaimers are boring, complex, and confusing… but they are also a legal requirement for most websites today.

The folks at Termageddon (a privacy lawyer and web agency owner turned engaged couple) have come up with an amazing, automated way to not only generate legally-solid policies, but to keep them updated as laws constantly change without lifting a finger.

Your customers probably don’t know how important these documents are, but you can look like a hero by not only warning them of the risks, but providing the perfect solution to keep their site legal.

Learn more about the Termageddon platform, how it works, and how you can use it to create more recurring revenue each month with their agency program!

yes no 00:50:01 Kyle Van Deusen
Maximize Your Recurring Revenue Model Tue, 07 May 2019 15:00:49 +0000 Kyle Van Deusen John White,Kyle Van Deusen,Matt Sebert John White has taken the subscription model that has become completely normalized in today’s economy and turned it into an amazing source of recurring revenue for his web development company.

Many businesses are stuck between wanting MORE than what the DIY solutions can offer, but unable to shell out $5,000-$10,000K for a website all at one time. The subscription model allows customers to get the website they need, and your agency to have reliable and steady income month after month.

John takes us through his process, as well as through a example of how you could adapt this into your own agency to increase your monthly recurring revenue through a subscription based service model.

yes no 00:56:55 Kyle Van Deusen
Building a Complete Website in a Day Tue, 23 Apr 2019 15:00:06 +0000 Kyle Van Deusen Chantal Edouard-Betsy,Kyle Van Deusen,Matt Sebert This weeks guest, Chantal Edouard-Betsy, had an agency just like the rest of us… doing a little bit of everything for everyone. Realizing the challenges that came along with that, she knew something needed to change. That’s when she launched ‘1 Day Webs’ and began building complete websites in just a day. Yes, ONE day and the project is done.

How is this possible?

How has it effected her business?

And who is this type of business model right for?

We discuss all that (and more) on this week’s episode. Even if building a website in a day doesn’t sound like the right fit for you, the she’s put in place to accomplish this are actually great no matter how long it takes you to get a project done (and they are sure to speed it up!).

Visit Chantal’s website.

See Chantal featured on the Agency Trailblazers podcast.

Learn more about Content First Design and how it can speed-up your web design and development projects.

yes no 00:41:31 Kyle Van Deusen
Ending the Feast or Famine Sales Cycle Tue, 16 Apr 2019 19:51:41 +0000 Kyle Van Deusen Funnel Packs,Kyle Van Deusen,Matt Davies,Matt Sebert As an agency, web developer or marketer who offers websites to your clients… what’s the one thing you always need?

Leads… That’s exactly right.

But you don’t just want any leads, you want great leads!

The problem is that generating leads takes time, which is your most precious commodity. That means taking time out of actually completing projects and working with your current customers.

Without a consistent source of fresh leads, you leave yourself open to being stuck in the dreaded feast or famine cycle.

I know this cycle all too well because I see it in my own business. One month sales are great, the next month they are poor. Why is that? It’s because after a good sales month, I don’t have the time to go sell any more… I’m busy producing. The next month, when the work is done, I’m out selling again with no time to work on projects.

Without knowing it, I’ve just got on sales rollercoaster— and I’ve been on it for over a year. It’s extremely stressful and a very hard way to see steady growth in your business.

The good news is that it doesn’t HAVE to be this way. In fact, this week we’ll be discussing this cycle (and more importantly—how to break out of it) with our good pal Matt Davies. Matt has been hard at work building a system that can help you consistently bring in quality leads month after month.

Watch the Walkthrough of using Funnel Packs!


yes no 00:42:17 Kyle Van Deusen
What You Need is a System Tue, 09 Apr 2019 18:01:58 +0000 Kyle Van Deusen Jim Galiano,Kyle Van Deusen,Matt Sebert Jim Galiano lives by the motto of “less moving parts” something that I am adapting more and more each day. This approach to your agency helps give you clarity, focus, and control over all aspects from the clients you work with, to your tech stack, marketing, and income.

Today we talk about how to build a better sales system… One that helps you seek out the right prospects, saves you time, AND connects with your clients better than ever before!

yes no 00:49:43 Kyle Van Deusen
How to Design High-Converting Portfolio Websites Tue, 02 Apr 2019 20:17:42 +0000 Kyle Van Deusen Design Academy,Kyle Van Deusen,Laura Elizabeth,Matt Sebert Does this sound familiar?

You know good design when you see it… but you can’t seem to replicate it in your own work.

You feel like design is the one thing holding you back from feeling like a professional in your clients’ eyes (whether that’s actually the case or not).

You cringe every time you give your URL out to somebody and mutter something along the lines of “It needs a bit of prettying up, but…”

Dealing with this stuff is hard. As a freelancer, you wear a lot of hats. Most things you can learn with a bit of research or trial and error, but design is one of those things that doesn’t seem to have any logic to it. It’s either good, or it’s not.

In an ideal world, we wouldn’t have to deal with design at all. People would see our ideas for what they are and they wouldn’t make judgements based on how it looks. Then, when we have enough revenue behind us, we can just hire a kick-ass designer to make it all look polished and professional.

Unfortunately, we’re all painfully aware that that’s not how it works. People have come to expect good design. And we all know we’re more likely to trust a product or company that is well designed.

Well, my friend Laura Elizabeth has been on a mission to teach developers (and really anyone who doesn’t consider themselves a ‘designer’) the fundamentals of design so you can create products that solve a problem AND look great. And she’s agreed to do a free workshop where she goes through a step-by-step process you can use to design something you can be proud of.

yes no 01:05:43 Kyle Van Deusen
Your Clients Aren’t Copywriters and That’s a Problem Tue, 26 Mar 2019 18:25:15 +0000 Kyle Van Deusen Kyle Van Deusen,Matt Sebert,Neville Medhora I don’t know about you, but my clients send me REALLY bad copy. I mean, really bad. So what do we do about that?

Neville Medhora is joining us to talk about the importance of copy (or Kopy) and how YOU can improve your skills to turn better projects.

yes no 00:41:54 Kyle Van Deusen
How to Find & Work with Clients Remotely Thu, 21 Mar 2019 12:08:04 +0000 Kyle Van Deusen Davinder Singh Kainth,Kyle Van Deusen,Matt Sebert Many of us rely on “local” business to keep us busy… but it’s a big world out there, and not everyone has that luxury. This week we’re talking to Davinder Singh Kainth who has been running a wildly successful agency for years- completely remote! Learn how he finds and works with clients from a distance.

yes no 00:55:42 Kyle Van Deusen
Our Biggest Takeaways & Ask Us Anything Tue, 12 Mar 2019 17:47:29 +0000 Kyle Van Deusen Kyle Van Deusen,Matt Sebert A special week on The Admin Bar where Matt and Kyle look back at the biggest takeaways from the first 19 episodes (there has been some true gold!). AND we’re taking YOUR questions, so load them up and we’ll get through as many as possible!


Episode 2 – In-House Staff vs. Outsourcing w/ Chris Castillo & Paul Lacey

First episode with real life human beings, of course the start of TAB is worth mentioning. As for my favorite part, it was a little over half way in that Paul and Chris started to talk about finding the right folks that work best with your and your current team.


Episode 3 – High Performance Marketing Funnels w/ Dave Foy & Todd E. Jones

Tons of value bombs in this show, but the one thing that comes to my mind all the time is “Be clear not clever”. Todd mentioned this about writing headlines and copy. Every time I’m doing any content creation this runs through my brain. It’s good because it rhymes.


Episode 4 – Future-Proofing Your Agency w/ Lee Jackson & Walt Spence

Right out of the gate, Lee Jackson brings up diversifying your income streams to generate income and reduce the stress of only having one way to generate that revenue.


Episode 5 – Define Design w/ Picca Neri

This was a great mindshift for the word “Design” for me. It’s not just about visual aesthetics / styling (like we typically use it). Instead, Piccia tells us that “design” means PLANNING, which could apply to almost anything.


Episode 6 – Put Your Passion into Motion w/ Liam Clisham

This episode proves that keeping your mindset fluid and not giving up tends to bring great things, shifting your business goals over time and what you’re offering is perfectly fine and opens up the possibilities of finding your passion or niche organically.


Episode 7 – Keeping Your Business on Track w/ Leanne Mitton & Imogen Allen
This episode demonstrated not only how important it is to have someone else to talk to about your business (and help you get through struggles, solve problems, etc), but that the relationship can take on many forms. It can be very structured (like Leanne and Imogen) or loose and casual like Matt and Kyle- but having someone else invested in your business is crucial.


Episode 8 – Pricing Your Projects for Profit w/ Bret Phillips

Hot damn, this was a great episode, trying to narrow it down to one takeaway is real hard to do, if I had to pick just one, it would be the 33-33-34 rule, it’s incredibly important to pay yourself, but also the tax man and re-invest in your business. This whole episode is gold, go watch it if you haven’t seen it yet.


Episode 9 – A Healthy WordPress Community w/ Dan Maby
Dan is a great reminder of how lucky we are to work in the WordPress space. Mental health is an issue that has no boundaries, and we need to all be reminded that all of us struggle- and that’s okay. We shouldn’t be ashamed to admit it.


Episode 10 – The Keys to Content Marketing w/ Kim Doyal
A great talk about how content marketing is just plain marketing. On your site, speak to the client, about the client, and how you can help THEM. Less about you, more about them. Case studies people!


Episode 11 – Email isn’t Dead, You’re Just Not Doing it Right w/ Dave Toomey & Pete Everitt

This email gave me lots of inspiration to get back on building my list. The line of the show was when Dave gave us the analogy comparing email marketing and social media marketing:

“With email I can talk to my potential client, with social media I always feel like I’m having to shout”

Episode 12 – Building Accessible Websites w/ Heather Gray
This one is an eye opener, Heather clearly lays out all the different ways that websites should be accessible to everyone and how so many just aren’t. As designers and developers, we tend to look at user flow, functionality, and aesthetics – but it shouldn’t stop there, contrast, font size, clear copy, keyboard navigation, and so much more are so important for those people out there with disabilities.


Episode 13 – The Pros and Cons of Coworking w/ Robey Lawrence
Starting with Robey in a “nutshell”, there were lots of laughs on this episode. What I remember most about this show is there are lots of ways to co-work. You don’t have to all be in the same physical location even. The importance is making the connections and being less isolated.


Episode 14 – Seeking a Work-Life Balance w/ Nathan Wrigley
Nathan joined us to talk to about work-life balance and how important it is to make sure that you’re not heading to burnout or a breakup. Being able to turn your brain from work mode to life mode is incredibly necessary to balance your life as a whole.


Episode 15 – Client-Focused Solutions for Your Agency w/ Laura Elizabeth
Laura Elizabeth has some awesome products that I’m a customer and fan of. One of the products she talked about on the show (Project Pack) has inspired me to really work on my client onboarding process. I specifically love her flowchart walking the customer through the development process.


Episode 16 – How to Setup OBS for Facebook Live Streams w/ Kyle & Matt
This was an episode a lot of folks in the group wanted to see – we didn’t have a guest on this week, but rather ran through how we set up OBS and stream our show. I’ve got to say, the best part of this episode for me was helping folks in TAB get OBS running a bit better.


Episode 17 – Finishing Projects On Time & On Budget w/ Beth Livingston
It’s almost impossible to pick one thing from this episode… Beth is a FANTASTIC project manager (and teacher!). I think the most important thing I took from this episode is to give prospects an estimate “range” up front, then do all the discovery and narrow down a price. This helps keep control the project scope and avoid scope creep.


Episode 18 – Building a Better Agency Through Outsourcing w/ Chris Castillo

First repeat guest! Chris joined us to talk about outsourcing and growing your business. My biggest takeaway from this episode was talking about how to choose and communicate with the folks you’re outsourcing projects to and how to manage these people.  Learning more about Chris’ new outsource platform Outsource Services and how it functions was a highlight as well.


Episode 19 – Split Testing for WordPress (Just Got Easy) w/ Adam Lacey

I really think Adam’s product is going to be a home run. The more we talked through the episode, the more I realized how much of an opportunity split testing is to give your customers real data, that they will actually care about. It’s things like this that can set us apart from our competition.


yes no 01:11:47 Kyle Van Deusen
Split Testing for WordPress (Just Got Easy) Tue, 05 Mar 2019 21:00:23 +0000 Kyle Van Deusen Adam Lacey,Kyle Van Deusen,Matt Sebert,Split Hero WordPress is great, but let’s face it… the options for split testing a WordPress site (especially one using a page builder) is pretty awful… until now. Join us with our guest Adam Lacey this week on The Admin Bar – Ep. 19: Split Testing for WordPress (Just Got Easy).

Check out SplitHero for yourself:

yes no 00:38:15 Kyle Van Deusen
Building a Better Agency Through Outsourcing Wed, 27 Feb 2019 06:57:57 +0000 Kyle Van Deusen Chris Castillo,Kyle Van Deusen,Matt Sebert We all understand how outsourcing can help our agency make better use of your time, increase revenue, and deliver better results… but finding reliable & trustworthy partners can be difficult. Our guest in Episode 18 (and TAB top-contributor) Chris Castillo has launched a new way you can find (and become) the right outsourcing partner.

yes no 00:53:24 Kyle Van Deusen
Finishing Projects On Time & On Budget Tue, 19 Feb 2019 19:52:06 +0000 Kyle Van Deusen Beth Livingston,Kyle Van Deusen,Matt Sebert Do you struggle to get clients on board to finish projects on time? You know all that time waiting is eating into your profits, right? . On Episode 17 of The Admin Bar we’re going to visit with Beth Lyles Livingston who has the “secret sauce” to finishing projects on time & on budget! Beth specializes in helping WordPress professionals with project management principles and techniques from proposal to final sign-off.

yes no 00:46:24 Kyle Van Deusen
How to Setup OBS for Facebook Live Streams Tue, 12 Feb 2019 19:45:34 +0000 Kyle Van Deusen Kyle Van Deusen,Matt Sebert Many of you have asked about how we set up our TAB live streams, so this week, Kyle and I have put together an overview of our process. From the very basics of setting OBS up, to creating the background slate, and finally adding video feeds and streaming to FB live, we’ve got you covered!

clean no 00:25:57 Kyle Van Deusen
Client-Focused Solutions for Your Agency Tue, 05 Feb 2019 19:13:17 +0000 Kyle Van Deusen Kyle Van Deusen,Laura Elizabeth,Matt Sebert Laura has come out with some amazing products that solve many of the problems agencies have. She will be joining us to share some insight on how and why she developed these solutions, as well as some pointers on how to implement them into your own workflow.

yes no 00:41:36 Kyle Van Deusen
Seeking a Work-Life Balance Wed, 30 Jan 2019 07:16:39 +0000 Kyle Van Deusen Kyle Van Deusen,Matt Sebert,Nathan Wrigley No matter if you work alone from your home, or are managing a growing team, achieving a healthy work-life balance is extremely difficult for the entrepreneur. This week we’ll be discussing our successes and failures in setting priorities, time management, and avoiding burnout.

yes no 00:49:56 Kyle Van Deusen
The Pros and Cons of Coworking Wed, 23 Jan 2019 18:55:01 +0000 Kyle Van Deusen Kyle Van Deusen,Matt Sebert,Róbey Lawrence This week, at a special time to accommodate our friends down under, we’re discussing the pros and cons of running a web agency in a coworking environment with Róbey Lawrence.

Is it right for your business?

clean no 00:41:07 Kyle Van Deusen
Building Accessible Websites Tue, 15 Jan 2019 18:44:16 +0000 Kyle Van Deusen Heather Gray,Kyle Van Deusen,Matt Sebert Heather Gray joins The Admin Bar to discuss accessibility standards within WordPress websites and how we can become better designers by making our websites accessible to folks of all abilities.

clean no 00:37:23 Kyle Van Deusen
Email Isn’t Dead, You’re Just Not Doing it Right Tue, 08 Jan 2019 19:06:17 +0000 Kyle Van Deusen Dave Toomey,Kyle Van Deusen,Matt Sebert,Pete Everitt In this episode we talk email marketing and why it’s on the uptick! Join Pete Everitt and Dave Toomey as we dive into the do’s, dont’s, why’s and why not’s in the world of email.

clean no 00:52:26 Kyle Van Deusen
New Year’s Eve Special (Podcast Only!) Mon, 31 Dec 2018 15:33:43 +0000 Kyle Van Deusen Dave Toomey,Kyle Van Deusen,Matt Sebert,Pete Everitt In this episode, we discuss a situation that happened to Kyle recently, and why the WAY you phrase your marketing messages can make a big difference.  This is a bonus, podcast-only episode not found anywhere else as a thank you to all you audio-heads. Happy New Year!


Join Our Community:

Like Our Facebook Page:

See it all on the website:

clean no 00:24:51 Kyle Van Deusen
The Keys to Content Marketing Tue, 18 Dec 2018 18:59:03 +0000 Kyle Van Deusen Kim Doyal,Kyle Van Deusen,Matt Sebert In this episode of The Admin Bar we have the one and only Kim Doyal! We’ll be discussing content creating for creatives and agency owners, how and why to implement it and what kind of content produces great results for both current clients as well as prospects!

yes no 00:37:06 Kyle Van Deusen
A Healthy WordPress Community Thu, 13 Dec 2018 10:29:08 +0000 Kyle Van Deusen Dan Maby,Kyle Van Deusen,Matt Sebert,WP&UP This week on The Admin Bar we’re touching base with Dan Maybe of WP&UP. What Dan is doing is not only amazing, but also extremely needed within the WordPress community. learn more about WP&UP, and the task Dan has taken up to keep the WordPress community happy and healthy!

clean no 00:33:23 Kyle Van Deusen
Lee Jackson Stops By The Admin Bar Tue, 11 Dec 2018 21:45:34 +0000 Kyle Van Deusen Kyle Van Deusen,Lee Jackson Lee Jackson visits The Admin Bar to talk about his exciting plans for 2019, including EVEN MORE content, a BOOK, and his very own IN-PERSON EVENT called Agency Transformation Live!

Always a pleasure to chat with Lee and try and keep up with all he’s up to.

Bonus! The Admin Bar Exclusive: The burning questions our community asked that you won’t find ANYWHERE else! No one has the guts to ask the hard-hitting questions we do!

Learn More & Get Tickets:

Agency Transformation:

Other Mentions:

Angled Crown:

Event Engine:

Agency Trailblazer:

Richard Bland:

Matt Davies:

clean no 00:21:46 Kyle Van Deusen
Pricing Your Projects for Profit Tue, 04 Dec 2018 19:05:43 +0000 Kyle Van Deusen Bret Phillips,Kyle Van Deusen,Matt Sebert In this episode of The Admin Bar, we’re joined by Bret Phillips of Sideways8 to talk pricing strategy. Bret has given this talk at WordCamp and brings a ton of experience and value to the show on this topic!

Kyle:               Today we have Bret Phillips here who I’m going to introduce to you in just a second, but as always, I’m joined by Matt Sebert. What’s going on today, Matt?


Matt:               Not a whole lot. Really excited about this episode though.


Kyle:               Yeah, absolutely. So like I said, we’re going to be talking about a pricing projects and that seems to be a topic that comes up in our group and every other one of the 500 groups I’m in just about every day. So I know there’s people looking for information on how they can price projects, how they can get more for projects. So hopefully we’ll be able to answer some of those questions today. So for those of you that don’t know Brett, Matt and I actually met Brett at WordCamp in Dallas, fort worth just a couple of weeks ago. He was a presenter there and we, saw him speak and then caught him as he was, I think leaving to head to the airport, catching an Uber, we caught him right where he left. He works for Sideways8 in Atlanta. He’s heavily involved in the 48 in 48 campaign, which I shared about, earlier this week on our page. He’s a musician and produces music. Right? But I, I’m just reading things off of what I could stalk you on Facebook, so why don’t you introduce yourself and doing it a little bit better job.


Brett:              I mean that’s pretty much it. So, there is a strong technical nerd inside of me and that seems to translate well into both the web space in music space. So I’ve been spending a lot of time doing both of those for many years. I do enjoy it. For Sideways8 my role is essentially project scoping and pricing. So that’s why this topic is kind of near and dear to my heart. And, yeah, and then the 48 in 48 program is, I’m only a volunteer there, but I try to be an advocate for it. It’s pretty awesome. We do 48 websites in 48 hours for 48 nonprofits. They are city specific events for the people doing the work. But the nonprofits come from all over the world. So it’s pretty cool and it’s a, it’s a good way for our, for profit business to give back and whether it has a pretty tremendous impact.


Kyle:               That’s what you actually did your talk on at word camp, as you know. But that’s what we heard you to come talk about. And I posted about it earlier on our page and I know people were interested on how they could be involved. So what’s the best way for them to find out more information and see how they can be involved in that?


Brett:              Sure. It’s a So I am 48 in 48 is the whole thing. Just go there, apply. You can look around. If you want to contact me directly I’m happy to talk to you about it. It’s a passion project for sure. And it’s not a for profit project, but our for profit business does do a lot of work with larger nonprofit. So it starts to get real meta and weird, but it’s cool.


Kyle:               While we’re on the subject of free websites, tell me this burning question I have that I never can never find the answer to How much does a website cost?


Brett:              It really depends on who you’re doing the website for. So I’ve found that the same amount of work goes into a $500 website as goes into a $5,000 website as potentially goes into a $50,000 website. You know, all the people need the same thing. It really just depends on where they’re coming from, where they’re at with their current business, and how much they can afford to pay, which then they try to find somebody that matches that appropriately. So for our team to do a $500 website, that’s going to, I mean, that wouldn’t even get us on the phone. But as an individual for a long time I did those and it took me months to get those things done. So it would making no money. I’m not saying you can’t do it, it’s totally possible make money on a $500 websites, but you should be able to get that done, like, before lunch.


Kyle:               Right? Yeah. I think, all of my first few projects were about $500. Actually me and Matt and we first connected he sent me, he hired me as a subcontractor to do a job and I ended up splitting the price of the website with him. And I think we both made like 300 bucks. So it was awesome.


Brett:              Yeah, I consider it a paid education. Somebody paid you to learn that you were not charging enough.


Kyle:               Yeah. And there’s value that comes out of it too, because so much of our business is referral based. So now you got to kind of explain to somebody that, yes, I just did this website for $500 but this next website isn’t going to be that much. I’ve had that awkward conversation with people as far as having to, I just charged their buddy this much. Now I’ve got to charge somebody else a lot more. So how would you kind of approach a situation like that if you ran into something like that?


Brett:              You’re talking about specifically you do let’s say $500. I would like to by the end of the conversation we’re going to be talking about a lot more money. But you just did one for $500. Their buddy comes up and says, Hey, I got a business. I heard you did a $500 website, you know that you probably need 1500 to 2000 actually make a profit. I would, I’m a big believer in full transparency in all aspects of our business and really life. It just makes it easier. So I would really just tell them, hey, during that project I realized a lot more work goes into it than I thought, here’s the value that I brought to them. You can talk to them directly about it. And if you think that you would like to work with me, it’s going to cost x and you should already have a good idea of what that next thing is going to cost. I think it’s really, it’s tremendously helpful to have an outline of what you can do for a certain price to just have a starting point for that conversation. So, you know, if it’s a five page website, it has one contact form, they’re providing the logo and all the content, you know, that’s something you can package up. But if it’s going to require a discovery process and some custom functionality and everything, you know, it’s hard to even say what that’s going to cost before you start diving into it.


Matt:               So what are the main, or do you have like a set list of assets or needs that all have a general price point?


Brett:              Yeah. At this point, our default proposal basically outlines what it would be for, I guess, about a 20 page website. I have a whole page listed on our proposal that says here’s what’s included in the standard website. It’s regular stuff like, you know, page content is included. We’re going to install certain plugins, we’re going to make sure that, there’s some level of accessibility testing that’s done, some level of GDPR that’s done. Just the stuff that we know for sure is going to go in to every website that we want to put our hands on, and that just gives me a ballpark to start from. So when somebody is like, “Hey, how much does it cost to get involved and what does that include?” I can either just send that directly or start a conversation and try to feel it out a little bit more. But yeah, I definitely an outline of what our base website is going to cover. It fits most projects. But obviously there’s always some little something that needs to be changed.


Kyle:               Sure. So, you did talk about kind of at the beginning when I jokingly asked you how much a website costs, you had mentioned it depends on how much they’re willing to pay or what they’re looking to spend. So that leads me into kind of more like a value based pricing system, where you’re kind of looking at that company and wanting to be the right fit for them. You know, obviously you don’t want to be too expensive for somebody, then you’re not a good fit. But also at the same point, if you’re dealing with a large company and you come in with a way to cheap of a proposal, they’re not going to take you seriously. So you can’t, it’s very difficult to pick a standard pricing and say, this is what I’m going to charge mom and pop and this is where I’m going to charge big international corporation. So how does that factor into your pricing?


Brett:              There’s a couple of things. One of them is, I have a pretty good idea who our best case customer is. I know roughly how many people are on staff, what their revenue is per year, an idea of what a marketing budget would be in there. So I know that my default price point kind of fit within that, but I know that that same exact website we could probably do our cost much less and still make a profit, so as I start to feel out where their business is, how much budget they have. I’ve tried to frame it out as, alright, we can do this for this much. If you want the all-in, it’s going to be this much. To touch on all in real quick, because there’s something you mentioned that triggered this.


Brett:              What I never want to do with a customer is have them go all in with their budget to do a project for them because the expectation that they’re going to have set for whatever it is that they’re trying to pay you, you’re never ever, ever going to be able to reach that expectation. And there’s so much more that can happen. We’re a full scale digital marketing agency. We don’t just build websites, but we do other stuff that ends up driving traffic. If you’re all in on just the website, there’s no budget left over to do any of the additional stuff as well. So if there’s any tip I can give is if somebody is trying to go all in and try to avoid that as much as possible because it’s just going to be a nightmare over the long term, you never going to meet that expectation.


Kyle:               It’s kind of under promise and over deliver too, and you don’t have the ability to absolutely do that at that point.


Brett:              Yup. You’ll never deliver enough for them to get their money back unless it’s just an immediate super win and they get crazy traffic and they’re selling products or services. I’ve never been in a situation where it’s been all in and it’s been healthy. I prefer to live within the budget and know that there’s more so that we can continue the conversation and continue to work together over a long period of time. As far as identifying the price and identifying the customer, making sure that my default rate fits within that, it’s very much about doing the homework of who’s that target customer, what does their world look like, what does their budget look like? Typically if you consider an organization having 10% of their revenue as a marketing budget. If you can figure out even roughly what that revenue is. I like to do often by staff. Think about how many people are on staff… Multiply that by like 40 or 50,000 per person. Then you get a somewhat of an idea of what they’re spending on just staff. There’s just to be extra money. So just a little math in there can help you go along way with identifying the right company and organizations that fit within whatever your costs are to do the website. Does that help?


Kyle:               That’s super helpful. And it’s kind of one of those things where, you know, you walk into a meeting and you’d feel intimidated to try to just pull out of thin air. It’s better having some kind of idea of what their revenue is. But there are some ways you can do some general quick math and get some kind of ideas. Are you talking about is this a $500,000 a year company or a $10 million a year company? You should at least narrow that down a little bit and that’s going to give you a better idea of what they’re going to be willing to spend on their budget.


Kyle:               When you’re talking about not maxing out, I think it’s Lee Jackson that talks about this quite a bit. Leaving some room in there for contingency because you can lay out all these plants for somebody and have the best proposal with all the details, and that doesn’t mean the customer’s going to understand the project. So you’re going to get somewhere down the line and they’re going to say, “Oh, I thought the website was going to do such and such”. Well, we didn’t quite a quote for doing that. We obviously can and we’d love to help you out… But leaving some room in there for contingency to is important.


Matt:               So you had mentioned taking into consideration wins and that type of thing. When you’re quoting do you take a look at what a whatever product or service it is that they’re offering and what like per client or per customer that would onboard?


New Speaker:        So you’re talking kind of almost a value based pricing type of an agreement when you’re looking at it? I certainly try to, but I’ve struggled with the value based pricing thing from that standpoint. From saying “I know that if I get you two customers, you’re going to make x amount, which will cover whatever”. I think that’s certainly a cool way to go about it. And it works for some people, but I think that for our team, we base it more around what does our costs going to be to get the site done? What is the budget that’s available from this organization and can we make a decent amount of profit within that to keep everything flowing? That’s more of my approach.


Brett:              But I do talk to people about that, especially the larger organizations that we’re getting into where I know that the budgets are getting a little bit bigger. Having an idea of what that win means for them will definitely dictate, you know, how much more I could charge, but it’s not something that I do often right now.


Matt:               One of the onboarding questions that I ask frequently is, what a client or customer is worth to them monetarily. Which gives me a good starting point. And then I go on to the other things as well. But you know, it’s a good balance between the two.


Brett:              Yeah. Well, I think even just having that conversation with them, a lot of times people don’t know, they wouldn’t have an idea. They don’t even have an idea of what it costs to get a customer. Or what that customer is going to give them over the long term. So even having that conversation with them gives you positioning factor of, “Hey, I didn’t even think about that. You’re the person that’s talking to me about that. Maybe I should talk to you about more stuff”.


Matt:               Yeah, absolutely. And I mean, there’s that type of customer. There’s also the kind of client that they’re really finicky when it comes to talking about that too. A few of the clients that I’ve met with in the past, they didn’t want to really say that during the first few meetings at least. People tend to hold anything that has to do with money pretty close to their chest. But I think that the more honest they are, the more upfront they are with all of the information, the better you can quote them and the better job you can do.


Brett:              Yeah, yeah, no doubt. The better you’re going to be to help them. And like I said earlier about transparency, if you can get it going both ways, that’s going to be the best relationship. Obviously sometimes you’ve got to sign an NDA and the larger the corporation gets more muddy. But you know, tell me the number is. What’s great about working with the nonprofits is a lot of that information is public already, so they’re not scared to talk about it. They’re like, “Here’s what the budget is, here’s what the numbers are. Can you help?”. Versus maybe a private company that doesn’t want to talk about it as much, but if somebody is trying to withhold any information, that’s kind of a checkbox in the “no” section for me. Right? I prefer to work with people that are going to have a dialogue and really want to talk about it. And we’re always willing to talk to somebody, give them information for free. I don’t want to do leg work for you for free, but if you just want to sit and consult, I’ll tell you what I think about a certain thing, but I need your feedback to be able to give you a good answer.


Matt:               Yeah. That kind of plays right into a trust that goes both ways. Communication. You need to trust them, but they need to trust you almost more importantly. And building that trust is paramount.


Brett:              Yeah, for sure.


Kyle:               So if you’re trying to get some realistic idea of the real budget from a client, what are some of the action points you can give people to try to figure that out besides the figuring out how many employees and stuff like that is. You have any other on that?


Brett:              You know, I’m a huge believer in the, some call it the website worksheet, I’ve changed it to project assessment worksheet. Essentially getting somebody to go through some steps to give you more information, part of that information be in a simple dropdown. Here’s the range, where’s your budget at? a lot of times people will fluff it and say under whatever the cheapest prices you have and they may have plenty of it and they just want to get on the phone. but that typically that gives me good information. And then, as much as I’ve hated them in the past, I’m trying to re-frame my idea of an RFP because, well, let me, I’ll go on a quick rant about RFPs. RFPS are typically written by people that have no idea what is actually best practice. It’s a huge wish list. The budgets are usually too small because they don’t even know what it costs. And it’s put together by teams of people that are all doing stuff. So they’re usually crap. that being said, once, like I said, I’m trying to re-frame my view of those cause when I received them before I’d get angry.


Brett:              That’s never a good way to start a relationship.


Brett:              So now I’m like “okay, I accept the challenge”. Is what you’re asking for realistic? Does it fit within this budget? And like is there any other questions that I have? Is there a way for me to start having a conversation with you to tell you that some of this stuff may not be the right way to go about it, which then starts to do some more positioning for you, which is cool. But the RFP is almost always have a budget. Before I’ll get on the phone to really start diving into a project conversation with somebody, they’ve got to go through our worksheet and if they don’t go through the worksheet, that first call is me taking through that worksheet and I just ask the budget question and I usually save it for the end. Let’s talk through a whole thing. Gimme that 15, 20 minutes of your time.


Brett:              Let me show you that I do know what I’m talking about. I’m asking the right questions so that at the end of it I can say, you know what is your deadline for this and what’s your budget for this? And then just be quiet and wait. Silence is the golden rule there because, when I started doing it, I would be like flubbing numbers out there, but now just sit and wait. They usually have an idea already in their head. If I’ve proven to them that I’m at least not an idiot and I, and I’m asking the right questions, typically they’re pretty honest about what it is. And at that point, another thing that I like to use too is let me know the realistic budget. Because even if we’re not the right company, I can direct you to somebody that might fit within that. I already trust in those companies to do a good job. I do that a lot. So that question alone probably gets me some of that. And usually those people that don’t want to give up the budget, it’s that they have a very low budget and they’re just nervous that you’re going to tell him it’s $75,000 to work on the website and they’ve got, you know, less than, I don’t know if they’ve got 7,500 bucks or something.


Matt:               But on the flip side of that, allowing them to better understand, the low likelihood that a lower budget is going to gain them what they want. It allows them to look at the other proposals that are coming in and if somebody is like, “oh yeah, we can totally do that for this tiny amount” it makes them second guess those people for saying that they can do it. Which, you know, even if they don’t end up going with you, at least they may not go with somebody that’s probably over promising and bound to under deliver.


Kyle:               Yeah. I don’t ever want to be, if somebody is getting multiple proposals, I don’t want to be the cheapest one for sure. I did get a question here from Chris Castillo in the live stream here. And I’m gonna try to it out here, but you know how it is. When you got to like read in front of people, I’ll sound like a kindergartener, but he said, “what are some of the conversation points you have with a prospect to just to determine what price range are proposal will be in number of pages is one thing I’ve seen. But my concern is that sometimes the client has redundant pages on their website structure is poor and pages may need to be consolidated. How do you address that before putting forward a proposal?”


Brett:              So our proposal, so the first thing I’m going to do when I go to a website is kind of look at what the end of the navigation or if I can find a site map, what that site map looks like. Cause you know, and this is something I learned from 48 and 48, one of the roles I have there at least was doing there with vetting the nonprofits that are applying. And so there’s a certain level of site that is actually appropriate for a 48 hour build. Something that has three hundred blog posts. Even if you can import those blog posts, probably not a good fit. It’s, it’s got 200 pages, probably not a good fit. So I’ve gotten good at kind of diving into and finding out what a full site looks like. Our team is pretty good. If we can do something that like 50 pages, it’s going to fit within our world cause likely we can cut some of that stuff down.


Brett:              But the page page count conversation isn’t always a huge deal. I’m more looking at what’s custom about the project, what’s different than what I would assume and I would assume page content needs to be updated and overhauled the end. The way that we’re approaching proposals now too is a little bit different to where I’m giving a proposal that has a full scope price. It says, here’s what I believe from all this conversation that we had is what the total cost of the project is going to be. But the first thing we’re going to do is the discovery and the discovery is going to include these things. And at the end of that discovery, we’re going to put together a statement of work that then is a much more clear vision of that scope and what that cost is going to be.


Brett:              So if there’s anything we didn’t uncover during our first conversations, we’re going to uncover it. Then one of those roles is what we call a content coach. And their entire responsibility is to outline and approved, get approval for the site map, every page, every post, not necessarily listening every post, but if there’s like we just need to know there’s 300 posts that need to be migrated or whatever. And then also they’re working on page content for those things too. But during that discovery is where we really start to identify what the scope of the full content piece of the website is. But for the most part, that’s usually pretty much the same. And we have caveat in the proposal says “up to x amount of pages”. If we’ve realized before then that there’s more, we’ve changed that number and change the price of whatever. So that’s kind of how I handle that. I don’t know if that’s a really helpful answer for that specific question, but that’s a probing of the website happens probably before I even get on the phone with somebody after they’ve filled out the project assessment sheet.


Kyle:               No, I think that’s a good answer. And I do see some people that charge per page. I had a competitor where I wasn’t before. She, she wasn’t much of a competitor, but she was a competitor nonetheless. But everything she priced was per page, you know, so, it’s just a weird dynamic to say, okay, well now I want to make the most page as possible because that’s how I make the most money. And now you want the least amount of pages as possible because then you can pay the least amount for the website. But really neither one of us are trying to make the right website. You know what I mean? So your incentives aren’t aligned with the goal of the website. That’s where the disconnect is in my brain with counting the pages and saying “okay, this is exactly how many we’re going to do for this price”.


Matt:               Yeah. And each website page is going to have a completely different value. You know, if you were to do it that way, like you can’t really have a standard price for a page like an about page is worth depending on the company a lot less than a landing page or anything else.


Kyle:               Or even like a thank you page that you’re just tracking information from a submission form or something. You’re not going to do at the same as the homepage. So it’s kind of hard.


Kyle:               Do you do or are any of the discovery sessions you do with your clients, do they pay for those? Are Those all free?


Brett:              Oh yeah, no they pay up front. So a proposal goes out and it’s basically… and we recently changed the terms of our proposal because we were doing the 50% upfront total project scope for a while. While that is great, it is a lot more work up front before the proposal goes out to make sure everything is buttoned up and perfect. So to get them out faster, what we’ve done is change the terms to where it’s 100% payment for the discovery project and that’s the upfront cost, that’s the engagement costs and the deliverable again is that statement of work. Our hope is that we’ve done such a good job of this statement of work and any functionality documentation that they could take it elsewhere when they’re done, if they don’t want to work with us anymore. Really our hope is that they would want to continue working with us. But we’ve got a clear vision. But yeah, it’s 100% up front for that. Then the terms change based on the customer, but that’s how we engage with that first part. I try to do my diligence to be as accurate as possible before I even send the original proposal. But that’s our catch all so that if I’ve missed something or they didn’t give us some information or something changes in between the time we talked and when we start the project, that discovery process gives us that opportunity. And in there that’s when the content coach comes in and does all the site map in the page content. Search engine optimization audit is happening and we’re going through all of that stuff. There’s an onboarding process, so we’re trying to cover the cost of starting that engagement and then getting through that with them. A little bit cheaper than that 50% upfront total project scope. So it’s a little less risk for the company to engage.


Kyle:              So you’re actually sending some sort of estimated costs or range of costs that they’re having to at least somewhat agree to before you’re going into all that work and doing the discovery and all that.


Brett:              Yeah, yeah, yeah. The goal is that I’ve done such a good job on my own that the end of the discovery, the statement of works still says the same thing price wise. But you know, there’s always, there can always be something that pops up or a new need that happens because, you know, again, with the RFP situation, people are putting this stuff together and they really don’t know what they need. They know what they want. They might not know how to get it or what’s the best approach. So during that discovery piece, we’re working on strategy, we’re doing consulting. So they’re getting some feedback which may change their approach to something where they may have wanted something before. They don’t want it any more because they realize there’s a better way to go about that. And that may be cheaper, it may be more expensive, but we don’t know til we get through it. But it us the opportunity to really start engaging. We’re paid 100% for our time, so we’re not losing money he discovery. Um, and we get an opportunity to just smother them with expertise for a couple of weeks so that they’re really just like, holy crap, I have to keep working with this company because like, they’re really taking the same to the next level.

clean no 00:50:30 Kyle Van Deusen
Keeping Your Business on Track Tue, 27 Nov 2018 16:52:34 +0000 Kyle Van Deusen Imogen Allen,Kyle Van Deusen,Leanne Mitton,Matt Sebert This week we’re joined by Imogen Allen and Leanne Mitton. Working for yourself, by yourself can be a struggle. But these two have cracked the code on how to keep their businesses on track. Learn about how their accountability relationship is helping them achieve their goals and grow their business.

clean no 00:43:01 Kyle Van Deusen
Put Your Passion Into Motion Tue, 20 Nov 2018 20:14:07 +0000 Kyle Van Deusen Kyle Van Deusen,Liam Clisham,Matt Sebert Not everyone hits their stride the first time out of the gate. Sometimes learning to pivot and course correct as your business and skill set evolve is just as important as pushing through rough patches. This week’s Admin Bar episode, we’re speaking with Liam Clisham of Five31, who’s done just this with his own career. We’ll learn where he started, what course corrections he’s made along the way, and where he finds his business now. It’s quite a story!

clean no 00:41:35 Kyle Van Deusen
Introducing CartFlows: Making WordPress eCommerce More Profitable Sat, 17 Nov 2018 07:14:39 +0000 Kyle Van Deusen Read more]]> Adam Preiser,CartFlows,Kyle Van Deusen

Tools like WooCommerce for WordPress have a powerful ecosystem, but the front-end options are very limited. CartFlows is a revolutionary new plugin that will take your sales funnels (a.k.a. “flows”) to a whole new level.

CartFlows will allow you to completely customize the user experience in your online store, including bump offers, upsells, downsells, and much more.

Join Kyle Van Deusen as he talks to CartFlows co-founder Adam Preiser on the eve of the launch.

clean no 00:42:06 Kyle Van Deusen
Define Design Tue, 06 Nov 2018 17:43:53 +0000 Kyle Van Deusen Kyle Van Deusen,Matt Sebert,Piccia Neri This week on The Admin Bar we’re speaking with Piccia Neri. We’ll be discussing all things design, what misconceptions there may be in the world of “design” and Piccia will be bringing her years of experience to help us better understand.

yes no 00:45:24 Kyle Van Deusen
Future Proofing Your Agency Wed, 31 Oct 2018 06:31:59 +0000 Kyle Van Deusen Kyle Van Deusen,Lee Jackson,Matt Sebert,Walt Spence This week on The Admin Bar we’re joined by Walt Spence and Lee Jackson to discuss how to set your business up for future success in an industry that’s constantly evolving.

clean no 00:44:27 Kyle Van Deusen
High Performance Marketing Funnels Tue, 23 Oct 2018 17:29:00 +0000 Kyle Van Deusen Read more]]> Dave Foy,Kyle Van Deusen,Matt Sebert,Todd E. Jones Woah! This episode was awesome! We’re joined this week with Dave Foy and Todd E. Jones to discuss the making of high performance marketing funnels and how best to write great copy.
Dave and Todd both bring a TON of insight and expertise to this conversation. There’s a lot of confusion when marketing funnels are involved, but it’s really not that complicated. Let’s dig in and find out!
clean no 00:43:42 Kyle Van Deusen
In-House Staff vs. Outsourcing Tue, 16 Oct 2018 18:24:46 +0000 Kyle Van Deusen Chris Castillo,Paul Lacey In this episode of The Admin Bar we’re talking with Chris Castillo and Paul Lacey about how they’ve decided to grow their agencies capabilities. One has hired in-house staff and the other has built out a strong list of people to outsource to. Find out why they’ve chosen the paths that they have and why it works for them!

clean no 00:46:25 Kyle Van Deusen
Ep. 0001: Grand Opening of The Admin Bar Tue, 02 Oct 2018 11:20:33 +0000 Kyle Van Deusen Kyle Van Deusen,Matt Sebert We got the first episode in the can! While this one isn’t live, it was done in one take This is just a little intro and a “get to know us” episode. Learn a little bit more about how we plan on bringing some value to the community and all the fun topics we’re going to be covering

Remember to share The Admin Bar love! The more folks we have here the more we’ll all learn and grow!

clean no 00:26:03 Kyle Van Deusen